Some Dogs Need This and Other Dogs Need That. WHATEVER.
I hear all kinds of things when people find out I’m a professional trainer.
Lots of people will say to me “not all dogs (horses, cats, insert your animal here) respond to things the same way. What works for one dog doesn’t necessarily work for another dog.”
I’ve got news for you.
It all works the same way for every learner, be it dog, horse, cat, or chicken (yes, chickens can be trained!).
The laws of behavior state:
- Reinforcement increases a behavior.
- Punishment decreases a behavior.
- Extinction eliminates a behavior.
Period. End of story.
Now, here’s what does change depending on the learner.
What one learner considers reinforcement does change, just like it does from person to person. Here’s a real-life example.
Let’s say a friend did me a huge favor (like came to let my dogs out 3x a day while the dog sitter worked when I went on vacation — you know who you are, Wendy!). If, as a thank you, I got her a big coconut creme cake, I would actually be punishing that behavior if she hates coconut. If that’s my go-to thank you gift, she’s probably not going to volunteer to help me out in the future.
So even if you really love something, it doesn’t mean everyone else does. I LOVE ice cream. But someone allergic to dairy would not appreciate ice cream for dessert.
It doesn’t matter if I hate pecan pie — if I want to reinforce someone’s kind or helpful behavior, I gotta let my hatred of pecan pie go.
A reinforcer is a reinforcer is a reinforcer. If behavior increases, a reinforcer is involved. Period. Done. Finished.
Well said! The comment from the guy about your workouts would have had the opposite effect on me and I can see how that works with dogs too. Thank you for making that point clear to me.
Amen! As an example, I find the phrase “train, don’t complain” to be personally very motivating — it is a mantra to me. Shut up and train. Quit complaining and get it done. I know other trainers who think that is too harsh of a phrase, though.
Thanks for your comment, Barb. Yes! That’s my point. While what the guy said worked for me, it wouldn’t work the same for you. Some other phrase might be motivating to you. I’d finally had enough of trainers who say, “R+ doesn’t work with every dog,” — they are flat-out wrong.
Yep, we’re all different. What we find reinforcing is different, naturally. I’m of the old “badass” school where I like to hear it like it is, no sugar-coating. 🙂 But I get it that not everyone finds that reinforcing. And that’s kind of the point: reinforcement is reinforcement, but what one finds reinforcing will vary. 🙂 Thanks for taking the time to comment.
So something about a currently popular dog “training” megastar is reinforcing. What can we do to make the lesson of science-based training more reinforcing to people?
I spoke to a man yesterday who told me he threw water balloons at his dog and shouted at her (on the instruction of his Bark Busters trainer) to keep him from following another person. He had started with a clicker trainer who charged $200 a session so he went to the franchise trainer to save money.
So what can we do to reinforce people to try good, positive, and effective training instead of bad, negative, and ineffective training?
Without knowing the person, it’s impossible to determine what is reinforcing. Sounds like cost is a factor in the decision making process. I would think that success would be the ultimate reinforcer though.
Spot on! I have been telling people this for a while now and, for the most part, I think they get it – if they are seriously interested in doing something about their dog’s behavior. Sometimes, in a strange way, I think some people find thier misbehaving dogs reinforcing, but that’s a whole different topic – and probably one for psychologists too!
For what it’s worth, I find that often times R+ trainers focus a little too much on building foundation behaviors while P+ trainers jump right in and “get results”. I work around this by teaching Susan Garrett’s “It’s Yer Choice” game right off the bat (this is very similar to what a lot of trainers know as “cookie zen”).
It’s a foundation behavior for sure, but when done by an experienced trainer, generally goes very fast and can be impressive. When I get a food-motivated dog to go from jumping/pawing/whining/nibbling at the food in my hand, to sitting politely as I flick food across the floor, after 3-5 minutes of work, typically the owner’s jaw is on the floor. Now that I have them convinced that I can get results without using verbal or physical corrections, we can get somewhere.
Obviously, this won’t work for every client or every dog. But I find it to be an effective demonstration for people who are “on the fence” about R+ training, those who share they enjoy watching ANY animal trainer on TV (regardless of the show! — they’re often expecting instant results in 43 minutes plus commercial breaks), as well as the folks who say their dog is “stupid” or “can’t learn”.
Hope this helps! 🙂
Katherine, I agree – It’s Yer Choice is one of those exercises I LOVE teaching in classes because students go from “My wild ‘n crazy dog will NEVER be able to do this” to “Look how smart my dog is!!” in less than five minutes. It’s empowering for the students, gets the dogs thinking (and succeeding), and gives me more credibility as a positive trainer. 🙂
Another one I’ve used is “sit by me” (for jumpers). After building value for sitting next to or in front of me, I start to move away and let the dog follow, clicking for sitting when he gets to me. I can then ramp up the excitement level until I can run away and have the dog chase me, but when I stop the dog sits. In a class setting this can be done by tethering the dogs to the wall and having the handlers practice walking away and approaching and waiting for their dogs to offer sits. When the dogs get it, we increase the speed/excitement of the handler’s approach, then practice having other handlers approach.
I would love to know what other folks use as “credibility builder” or “instant gratification” behaviors for their clients!
Hi, Laurie! I just discovered your blog through the BlogPaws 31 Days Group, and I’m really looking forward to following your site. I like the comparison of dog training to working out, that is exactly how I need to look at it. Great to meet you!
I am trying to work with positive reinforcement for Delilah, but she becomes so excited when she sees the food it is almost counter-productive. Do you have any suggestions for this?
Well, I need to argue it a little bit, because I’ve said this, that every dog is different. I work with a lot of dogs. Absolutely reinforcement works the same way on all dogs (while technically, punishment works differently on different animals! which is an important reason why we need to focus on controlling the reinforcement! It’s hard to really predict the results of punishment!).
But in your case, the example you cite that motivated you to change your behavior was actually a punishment. You were being punished (criticized and actually swore at,lol) for stalling and so you decided to seek reinforcement by jumping in. You were NOT being 100% reinforced for stalling. The cost of stalling just wasn’t worth it to you. And you are predicting reinforcement in your behavior. Technically, that guys comment wasn’t really a reinforcer. People get this confused (Ie: they push the dog into a sit and say they are reinforcing a sit. not really. they are punishing standing). Anyway your example was a punishment for stalling. What is motivating your behavior? You are acting to avoid further punishment and to earn further reinforcement. You go girl!
Sigh. There is too much to talk about and not enough time.
Ayoka, thanks for your comment. I completely agree — sometimes people really do find misbehaving dogs reinforcing. Odd, isn’t it? 🙂
Hi Jenny, thanks for the comment. Punishment, like reinforcement does work the same way on all dogs: it decreases the behavior. How the dog *responds* to the punishment or reinforcer may differ, of course.
As for my example, it was definitely NOT a punisher. It made the behavior of working out INCREASE. That’s a straightforward reinforcer. Sometimes, the trouble comes in because people are looking at two different behaviors. You’re looking at my behavior of stalling. I’m looking at my behavior of working out. My working out was reinforced — it increased.
I do love these conversations! They can be circular at times, but once we decide on the behavior we’re looking at, we’ll come to the same conclusion. Thanks for joining the conversation, I could talk behavior-talk all day! 🙂
Hi Jodi, thanks for the question. Try using something a little less exciting. Some dogs work great for Cheerios, but go bonkers for diced chicken. Once your dog understands that calm = clicks and treats, you can then start to use a more palatable treat to reinforce desirable behaviors. Happy training!
Julie, thanks for stopping by! Thanks for your kind words and I look forward to seeing you on the BlogPaws group!
Fabulous!
One of my favorite personal examples of this is how I fixed jumping up with my dog Ben. When I first got him he was a a one year old shepherd, and he would stand up and put his front paws on my shoulders. I tried all of the standards, like turn away and ignore him, reinforce an alternate behavior, etc, but know what worked like a charm in two trials? He was uncomfortable with physical affection, so when he jumped up, I pet him playfully around the head while doing the “Who’s a good boy… you are!” voice. Once, twice, done.
Hey, I definitely solved that problem through punishment. I did something he didn’t like, and that behavior stopped immediately.
(Thankfully, he has come a long way since then and we can now use petting as reinforcement instead of as a punisher!)
When looking at the quadrant, I think it helps to look at where the action is, so when evaluating ‘stalling’ vs ‘working out’, you need to look at ‘working out’ when determining whether the behavior increases or decreases.
However now that we’re discussing it, wasn’t the “get your butt in gear” actually the stimulus since it preceded the behavior?
Sigh, I love behavioral geekdom.
Oh. My. God. Another behavioral geek. I’m ecstatic! Yes, after I wrote this article and posted it, I noticed that I was really talking stimulus here, not an actual consequence. I wanted to go in and re-write it all, but I felt like that would be cheating almost, so I just left it. Although it really bothered the oh-so-particular science-geek in me! So to tell the truth, I’m glad you noticed it! I’m so glad to hear there are others out there who find this stuff just as fascinating as I do!
Thanks for reading and commenting! I’ve unintentionally punished the Great Dane, Talos, by doing this very thing. Not thinking, I’d rub his head when he’d come over to me. He’d very quickly go the other way and I’d then remember: He hates that! Oops.
I had a brilliant client who did something very similar. Every time her adolescent dog would bark, she’d happily cheer him on and run him into his crate, praising him the whole way. Completely anthropomorphizing here: the dog thought she’d gone wacko and couldn’t believe his owner thought that barking meant “I want to go to my crate.” In three days the barking was gone. I loved it!
You have to take in to account that when people say “not all dogs (horses, cats, insert your animal here) respond to things
the same way. What works for one dog doesn’t necessarily work for
another dog” they may not be referring to the training method itself but to things like rewards, treats/toys etc. While liver may entice some dogs, it may not work for others. Where food doesn’t work at all for dog A, a rope toy might. We all express ourselves in different ways… =)
Food HAS to work for all dogs because it’s a primary reinforcer — the dog cannot live without it. Now, the *type* of food definitely can make a difference. If you’re lucky enough to have a Labrador, you can use just about anything! (At least all my Labradors service pups in-training loved just about everything.) My Dane, on the other hand, likes *only* colby jack cheese. Not mozzarella, not feta. COLBY JACK, thankyouverymuch.
But: here’s the thing. Food is a reinforcer. Period. It has to be. Or else the learner dies. So it’s a matter of finding *which* food. Not that “food doesn’t work.”
Reinforcement definitely increases behavior for everyone.
Punishment definitely suppresses behavior for everyone.